Episode 54: From Broke Bartender to Seven Figure CEO with Nicole Hesse

We are so excited to welcome our badass guest Nicole Hesse to “The Pursuit of Badasserie” podcast. Nicole, a self-made millionaire, shares her fast-paced journey from being a broke bartender to becoming a seven-figure CEO in just 13 months. She discusses her unique approach to sales, focusing on catalyst marketing to attract true clients.

Nicole emphasizes the importance of authenticity and being unapologetically yourself in your business, even if it means repelling some people (especially if it means repelling people). She discusses the significance of building an audience with the intention of creating a lasting impact and offers incredible insights into rapid audience growth.

Make sure to join Nicole’s Facebook group, check out her freebie, and explore her podcast, “Real Uniforms Don’t Wear Pants.”

Nicole Hesse on The Pursuit of Badasserie

In this episode, we discuss:

  • Nicole Hess’s journey from a broke bartender to a self-made millionaire in 13 months.
  • Nicole’s unique approach to sales and marketing using catalyst marketing.
  • The importance of authenticity and being unapologetically yourself in business.
  • The idea that repelling some people is necessary to attract your true audience.
  • Building an audience with the intention of creating a lasting impact.
  • Rapid audience growth strategies.
  • Information on how to join Nicole’s Facebook group.
  • Details about Nicole’s freebie resource, “www.nonstopnotifications.com.”
  • Nicole’s podcast, “Real Uniforms Don’t Wear Pants.”

Find Nicole: 






  • Like the show? LEAVE US A REVIEW wherever you listen!
  • Have a question? CONTACT US at info@thepursuitofbadasserie.com!
  • Want to sponsor us? Find out how HERE.

Want to read our podcast? Check out this transcription:

Lynn Howard

Yeah. Okay. We’re still recording. It’s all bloopers. Hey, I’m Lynn.

Amanda Furgiuele

And I’m Amanda. Welcome to The Pursuit of Badasserie. The Podcast. We are excited as always to be back again with another guest.

Today, we are welcoming Nicole Hess. She’s a self made millionaire who went for bringing broke bartender to a seven figure CEO in just 13 months.

So we’re going want to tune in for this one. She has empowered thousands of entrepreneurs in the online world to monetize their skill set and results.

The ripple effect that Nicole has had on the online world is just the beginning as her clients have not only made millions of their own.

But. Have their own clients hitting seven figures in their businesses as well. Nicole has accomplished so much in such a short amount of time as a result of her unique perspective on the world of sales.

She stands firmly against traditional pain point tactics and uses her signature strategy of catalyst marketing to attract true unicorn clients and we love that.

Welcome to the show, Oh, well thanks for the big intro.

Lynn Howard

Now it’s true.

Amanda Furgiuele

Now we start ticking it off. You have to live up to all these expectations that we laid down for you.

Nicole Hesse

That’s right.

Lynn Howard

I’ll start jumping.

Amanda Furgiuele

Yes. Tell us a little bit. Oh, I know, Lynn.

Lynn Howard

Go ahead.

Amanda Furgiuele

Go ahead.

Lynn Howard

I was going to say the same thing. Tell us a little bit about how you got started, like how you made that transition.

Nicole Hesse

Well, I got fired. That’s generally how it starts, right? So I got fired not from one but two bartender jobs in the same month, six months after I quit drinking.

Fun fact today is actually five years sober for me. So I quit drinking and then the bartender industry just kind of ate me alive after that and they said, get out of here.

But as you know, when door slows, open windows kind of pop up, right? And so I jumped into a Facebook ad run along before I knew what that was.

And before I knew it, I was on a sales call with some guys telling me it’s on program. And I got into a Facebook ad agency program where I was going to learn how to run Facebook ads.

my idea was to run them for bars. Well, it turns out guys, I’m terrible at running Facebook ads. And so I couldn’t figure out how to do the pixel or any of the tech stuff and the coach in that program grabbed me and he was like, Hey, you’re really bad at running Facebook ads.

But how did you get all these clients? Because I had 10 high ticket clients in my first six weeks in that program, made $20,000 reoccurring right off the bat.

And he had me teach client attraction inside of his program to a couple of his other members, you know, the kind of the old men that were helping me with the pixel.

And then he said, you know what, you should stop doing this and you should open your own course that teaches people how to use

And all right, cool, how do I do that? And he showed me the ropes. built a Facebook group, built it up to 10,000 people in my first six months, and had my first six figure month in my eighth month, and then was at seven figures in my 13th month.

And now we’re three years strong, just over $3 million, and almost 3,000 clients.

Amanda Furgiuele

That is amazing. I love that story. And congratulations on your milestone.

Nicole Hesse

No, thanks. Yeah, it’s been fun. Fun and best.

Lynn Howard

We like it. We like a lot. Actually, when we were getting ready to do your interview, I was thinking of one of the chapters that was in our sales book, because I come from parents or mom and And all the women in our family who were in the restaurant business, and that kind of secret sauce that all the women in

I know my family had that helped them engage and interact with people that really is a dying art form that a lot of people don’t have.

I’m assuming that that’s some of kind of what’s woven into your tactics and strategies is that like that getting to know people in a very different way.

Nicole Hesse

Yeah, I mean, when you work in a bar, right, you see people in rare form, you see them as their true selves because they loosen their tie and they have a couple drinks and they talk about things from a context of how they actually feel about them.

And so there’s a much more intimate connection that happens in that state of being. And I definitely use those skill sets of how to disarm and diffuse and get people into their true selves and to be really raw and vulnerable with me, which of course helps me in delivery to help clients to get better results.

But it also helps in the sales process because I understand my target market a lot better than a lot of coaches or entrepreneurs do because my audience is just more vulnerable with me.

Lynn Howard

I love that. Tell us a little bit about kind of, if somebody is just tuning in, what are some of the key points that you would love to share with the audience about really selling at a better level and a higher frequency?

Nicole Hesse

Well, one of the things that I do is focus on catalyst sales. so what that actually means is that most marketing traditionally is going to teach you about people in their pain, right?

Find out what people are struggling with and then sell them the solution to that, right? That’s, I mean, that’s the way marketing has always been.

But what I’ve found is that people go through a very typical cycle, is that when they’re struggling with whatever they’re struggling with, they’re in the pain, right?

And then they have some rock bottom kind of experience. So if we put this into the context of drinking, it’s an easy example, right?

Is that people are drinking too much and then it’s starting to cause some pain in their life. They’re having hangovers.

Maybe their spouse is upset. They’re getting in trouble at work, they’re getting passed up for raises, things aren’t going well.

But generally, people don’t actually change until they get the DUI. Right? The DUI comes in, smacks them upside the head, and then before you know it, they’re like, I can’t look like this anymore, and they realize that they need to quit drinking and start doing something different.

Right? So there’s a very typical cycle that happens for people where they’re struggling, and then they hit a rock bottom, and then they have this aha moment that says, I can’t live like this anymore, there must be a better way.

Instead of talking to people in their pain, I only take all of my marketing and focus to talking to the people who have already hit rock bottom, and have already decided that there’s a better way.

So I’m only speaking to them in that one timeline, and of course, because we’re not limited by time and space anymore, because we’re all on the internet, there are millions of people that are in the catalyst, in any given industry at any given time.

So I don’t need to talk to people in their struggle, so I don’t spend six to eight months warming somebody up, because I already have the results, we’re ready to invest and ready for results.

I focus all of my marketing potential in one space at one time, which removes all the variables and makes things way faster.

Amanda Furgiuele

I love that.

Lynn Howard

Me too.

Amanda Furgiuele

And that’s such an important thing to know. people always will talk about meshing down. And that’s just another way to find your ideal avatar.

So you’re you’re reaching out to the people who are at that moment of decision making. They’re not thinking about thinking about it.

Because those say in marketing, like you need seven touch points before anybody starts to really think about your product, etc.

But if you’re reaching out to those people who are in that target market, who are already at the decision making point, you are going to just get rid of all of that waiting period to get to the And that’s a really great way of explaining it.

Nicole Hesse

that’s, I love that. Yeah, target market isn’t just who it’s also when.

Lynn Howard

Absolutely. I love that you said that because I was thinking the same thing when you were. You know, that reason season kind of lifetime situation and you are looking at the perfect moment with the perfect storm to have the perfect conversation more or less.

the language, because you can talk in your target audience or your ideal client or whatever you want to call them, their language.

However, if they’re not open to hear, if they’re not in the right place to hear it, then they’re not going to hear it.

And that’s exactly to take it one step further. So I love that. I love that. I know you talk a lot about being in a certain frequency and it’s really part of your, the core of who you are in the business that you put out there.

So I want you to talk a little bit about that because I know it’s going work with the woo-woo We both agree in like the attraction and that frequency.

Like being in the right mindset or whatever. So can you talk a little bit about holding the space for some figure frequency and how that also translates into your how you communicate with your clients or prospects?

Nicole Hesse

I actually use a very basic tenant on something that has been practiced for a long, long time, which is stoicism, right?

It’s just that typically when we’re talking about stoicism in the marketing world, we’re talking about it from the perspective of bro marketing bullshit, right?

And so the bro marketers are like, stoicism this stoicism that while not practicing any of the actual tenants of it because they read Marcus a brilliant one time and now they think they’re a fucking demigod, right?

That’s not actually how that works. And stoicism isn’t the lack of emotion. It’s actually the presence of all emotion at the same time.

What we tend to do in society, especially as women, is that we tend to act the way that we think other people want us to act, right?

So we’re demure, we’re better seen than heard. We’re Standing still and looking pretty and doing the things that we’re supposed to do and if you’re a bartender, you’re smiling because you look a whole lot prettier when you fucking do, right?

So we’re taught all the time to be what other people want us to be, okay? And so that means that we’re constantly shoving our emotions down deep and never talking about them ever again.

And so in the premise of stoicism, it’s not the absence of emotion. It’s the willingness to feel your feelings in the moment in front of other people.

So when they piss you off, you say so. Just like a man would do, right? When they make you sad, you get sad in the moment instead of saving it till later and so in the practice, in the frequency of emotion, you’re allowing yourself to feel how you actually feel right now.

And when you do that, you don’t bottle shit up. And if you don’t bottle things up, you’re always free to be in the present moment.

And in the present moment, that’s where all limitless possibility exists. we’re constantly living in the past, then we’re trapped in the survival mechanism of who we used to be.

And if we’re constantly living in the future, then we are riddled. With anxiety and the what ifs, what if this happens, what if that happens, and trying to anticipate what could happen all the time, which is fucking exhausting, quite honestly.

So when we practice stoicism, it’s feeling the feelings right now, which allows you to activate the frequency of neutrality.

And neutrality is where we make choices for them. It’s actually the void in which we create everything in our lives.

It’s the blank slate. It’s the choice that we have. And so in that seven figure frequency or an eight figure nine figure, whatever the activation of money, money itself is inherently neutral.

Because money in the hands of good people does good things. Money in the hands of shitty people does shitty things, right?

So money is inherently neutral when you activate the frequency of neutrality in your life, in your state of being, you become an energetic manager for money.

Amanda Furgiuele

I love that. I love it. And I really like that you’re pointing out the misconceptions behind stoicism because there is your right.

I read one book and they’re like, I am the expert on this. It’s like good, well hunting. Like I read $2 in library fines and suddenly you’re an expert.

So I absolutely believe in that that a lot of people misconstrued stoicism as this. I am the manly man.

I have no feelings at all, no emotions at all. And I admit that when I first was turned on to stoicism as a way of life, really, that’s what I kind of thought it was because I have very few motions outwardly.

So it was like, oh, I’m on the span wagon of no emotions, but it definitely goes way further than that.

And it really is about having all of them and feeling them truly in their full essence. So I love that you’re shouting that from the mountaintops because that is a really important distinction to have.

Nicole Hesse

I think that people don’t understand it because it looks like someone who’s practicing. So a schism doesn’t have a lot of emotion, but the fact is it’s just that they’re not bringing their baggage from previous emotion, right?

So if you say something that pisses me off right now, I can be mad for three seconds instead of.

30 minutes because I’m not taking the 10 things that you said before that I had stepped down deep and I’m not talking about and seething with that anger, right?

When we’re actually activated by something that may upset us or cause emotion, emotion is bleeding. Feelings always flow. You never felt a single feeling for forever.

That’s not how feelings work. So when you allow your feelings to consistently flow, they don’t build up. And so when you get pissed off, you’re pissed off for two seconds instead of two weeks, right?

Lynn Howard

I love that. I’ve actually, I mean, you’re definitely speaking my love language. However, I’ve never taken it from an angle of stoicism.

And, you know, I’m sitting here in reflection and like thinking of like, and I, it’s too related to actually like come up with names, but like even in movies and stuff who I felt like were represented stoicism.

And it’s true. Like I see them, they were great leaders because they had empathy and because they felt like a different connection than those who are more rigid.

And like not necessarily more evolved. And I love that example. actually going to have to dive into that a little bit more.

Amanda Furgiuele

But I do. I love that. Well, I have the book. can borrow it. So I, I want to ask a little bit about you have this concept of marketing through your true self attracts your true believer.

Nicole Hesse

Can you speak a little bit about that? I mean, this for me is just the premise is that I had to work for somebody else for quite some time.

And most people did, right? And most people were doing what other people wanted them to do and playing a role.

And whereas when you start your own business, the whole point is that you know how to do that shouldn’t work.

so it’s like this freedom to take over pants and do shit. However the fuck you want to do it.

And so I built my entire brand doing shit that people thought was fucking bananas. Like if you notice, I’m in a, I’m in a nightmare before Christmas shirt right now, right?

Because that’s what makes me fucking happy. I don’t wear that or do the hair and makeup thing because I don’t want to.

I I don’t wear bras because I did that shit behind a bar for 15 fucking years and I’m cool on all that.

And so I show up however the hell I want and a lot of people told me that that wouldn’t work.

A lot of people told me not to cuss on lives. A lot of people told me not to say but- Oh, on lives or call people guns, but I do it anyways because that’s truly how I talk.

And does that repel people? But yes, it does. People come into my Facebook group all the time and they’re like, you’re so unprofessional.

And I’m like, right, because I don’t whatever the fuck I want. And I’m totally unapologetic about it. And that makes me feel really fulfilled.

fulfillment is the predecessor to success, right? can’t help but naturally follow fulfillment because people want to feel fulfilled. And when they see you feeling fulfilled, they ask you that magic sales question, right?

Which is, how did you do that? How are you living a life where you get to do whatever the fuck you want every day because I want that?

And that leads to a very natural sales conversation where I can help somebody to become their true self unapologetically.

So they can attract other people who think their jokes are fucking funny, right?

Lynn Howard

I love that. Amanda and I spoke a lot about this and I used to teach quite often around this, but it’s not even just you’re taking it one step further with the whole target market and then I want to get to like you being in flow is like, okay, you’ve identified who they are.

You know where you want them. So that season or that moment, but then also because you are truly in the essence of who you are representing what you believe, you’re actually deterring those that to me sometimes is more important than attracting your right clients because you go out and find them.

You go out and hustle. But if you keep kissing frogs like, fuck that sucks, man. Like that sucks. And so I love that.

I love that that you took even one step further. Amanda, talk about that a lot. And also to kind of step back into the woo side of it, like the whole frequency in the flow, if we’re.

And in alignment or in alignment, it’s too early for me. If we’re not aligned and we’re not vibrating at that certain frequency or open to, or like you said, being in that neutral state, we’re clogged up, we’re blocked.

And so things can’t flow to us. We can’t have the conversations in the way that we should be having the conversations in order to help that kind of flow through because we’re stopping it.

Either energetically, spiritually, emotionally, whatever that is. And I love that you’re talking about that because if you are more in alignment, and this is, I mean, I live in a Buddhist country.

It’s very much something that I follow. I have since even before we live in a Buddhist country, but they talk about like that.

Like, things can flow when you are in a complete alignment. Otherwise, when you’re not, like you’re resisting and you’re, it’s bad for you and it’s bad for the people around you, essentially.

Nicole Hesse

I love that you’re talking about all of this. We all create resistance, right? That’s part of the human experience is to generate resistance and to feel that feeling of like, oh, I’m uncomfortable and like, this doesn’t work or this doesn’t fit.

if we want to step into patterns of success, it’s about identifying resistance and alleviating it, right? When you are an entrepreneur, it doesn’t matter what industry you’re in or if you’re woo or you’re not.

The magic secret sauce to being a successful entrepreneur is reflecting refine. And the ability to reflect and refine comes from your ability to identify the constraints and then come up with systems to alleviate them.

And of course, that’s how it works and a conveyor belt of putting together a car, right? But if you’re not doing that inside of your own body and inside of your own mindset, then you’re literally creating the problem from the inside out because the outside is always going to match and mirror what we’re doing on the inside.

So it’s allowing ourselves to actively repel because there’s no such thing as attraction without repelling. You can’t do client attraction without repelling people.

And so it’s the willingness to I have 50% of the people in your audience say, fuck you, I hate you, right?

I don’t want to do this. And that unlikeability is really uncomfortable for a lot of people. And that’s why a lot of people are not very good at attraction marketing, because they’re not willing to be unlikable.

Lynn Howard

It’s so true.

Amanda Furgiuele

We were just talking about this with RVA recently about having clients that are unwilling to scare people. They’re unwilling to take that leap and repel someone because they’re afraid of how it’s going to look, their family’s going to think, what their boss is going to think, what, how everything’s going to play out.

And that fear of not being liked is holding you back. 100% is. And I remember this for just from years ago, I had a business that I started and I was super hush-hush about it with everybody because it was so taboo.

like, I can’t tell anybody about it. nobody needs to know if my family didn’t know. I opened an entire business, nobody knew about it, and I didn’t really grow until I started telling everybody about it.

It was like being unashamed of the taboo and just doing it, and people who didn’t like them, unfollow me.

It’s fine. Or troll me and say all the things, it’s fine. don’t have that. There’s no heart there to hurt.

it really makes such a big difference when you embrace pushing people away. And I know it sounds as women were not supposed to, do that.

But it works. And it definitely will bring you the people that you’re seeking for your business, if you push away the ones who you don’t want aren’t aligning with what you want, and who are going to be more repainable than you really want.

So, and by attracting the people you don’t want, you are limiting your potential and by being afraid of what everybody else thinks you are absolutely limiting your potential.

Nicole Hesse

Yeah, I mean, there’s only one way to step into the prolific zone. Right. There’s no money. In mainstream, there’s no money in being liked by everybody.

And if you want to get into the prolific zone, it means pissing people to fuck off and creating that activation because triggers in whatever victim mentality people want to fucking call it, right?

that energy can be so easily transmuted into activation, right? As challenges, challenges are what turn into opportunities. If you want opportunities, it’s time for you to step the fuck up and invite the challenge and be willing to be willing to have people throw some fucking stones, right?

People throw lots of things that shine, right?

Lynn Howard

We all learn different things. know. Absolutely. And I was just listening to probably another podcast or one of my favorite newsfeed Instagram.

And they were talking about the cycles of success. Actually, I think it was in a book that I was reading or listening to Audible.

And they were talking about that and they’re like, listen, like, if people don’t hate you, then you’re not successful.

Like if people aren’t throwing rocks at you, you’re not successful. Like you have to get past that and eventually it actually tilts in your favorite.

I anyway. Not just that you’re repelling them, but if enough people are talking about you regardless, good or bad, it is helping you.

But I think more importantly, and this is, I know going back to a lot of the root of what you talk about, if you’re living in your truth and living in what you are and absolutely, like you cannot grow in the comfort zone, you have to go through those challenges and those feelings, like, then you’re living your best life and you’re figuring out, I mean, you’re talking all of our love and And language because we definitely, like, we don’t care.

I mean, we do, but we don’t at the same time. we’re not doing it on purpose. Well, sometimes we’re doing it on purpose.

But, but yeah, I love this. Tell me what, because I know we’re wrapping up soon. is one thing that you wish you would have known when you first started that you know now?

Nicole Hesse

Oh, I mean, it’s hard to complain. It’s hard to complain when you’ve, you’ve, you’ve, And you did a million dollars in the first 13 months, right?

I think that probably the biggest mistake that I made on anything was thinking that I wasn’t gonna make mistakes, right?

Was thinking that, you know, not making mistakes was the name of the game. Like, it’s not like the fastest way to success is fucking the fuck up as fast as possible.

And just being willing, being willing to be there. The perfectionism that gets us all right, where we like want everything to be perfect.

So we don’t take action or we maybe pussyfoot into something a little bit or we half-ass it because we’re a little bit afraid to really activate.

But, you know, I think that just the willingness, the willingness to make mistakes and understand that every single decision will serve in one way and limit it another.

And so there’s no reason to not make the decision. Make the decision. You’re gonna learn the lesson on the other side of it.

And that lesson will better serve you. And every single time that you activate a new income frequency, you’re going to activate new problems to be hacked.

You know, I… I asked to activate that nine figure frequency and the very first thing that happened was a fucking lawsuit.

And it was like, oh my God, this is awful, but it’s the realization that there’s not a nine figure company on the face of the motherfucking planet that does not have a legal team in place.

And so now I have a legal team in place, right? I didn’t die. I went through the whole thing and it was fine, right?

I learned the lesson and now I’m not afraid of that anymore so I can activate faster because I’m not coming from a place of fear or the place of the unknown.

Lynn Howard

I Absolutely. I love that. The only thing I want to add to that is they will only learn the lesson if they choose to learn the lesson.

But like, I do, I love what you just said. We talk a lot about that. And we know stuff.

We know a few things about having a legal team in place. We have a legal team in place.

Amanda Furgiuele

Yes, I’ve been sued more than once. I’ll say all the time that you can’t shine bright if you’re not prepared to pass in dark dark shadows and people will go after your money.

I get a legal team, folks, get a legal team. But even so, if we talked about this in our first book about making decisions because there are no real mistakes, like you just make the decision and then you deal with all the consequences of that.

You deal with what that, what’s going to happen because it be, yeah, even if you make a quote unquote good decision, there’s still bad things that can happen from that decision.

If you’re trying to hit nine figures, it’s a good decision, but bad things are going to happen. Like, it’s just going to come up.

So that’s just the way it is. You just have to know that every decision you make there are good and bad.

So there is no wrong way to make decision except to not make a decision. So you just have to be prepared to live with whatever the consequences are good or bad.

Positive or No. Good and bad is such a relative term.

Lynn Howard

All right, we are wrapping up. So what is one last nugget that you would love to give to the audience or kick in their ass?

Nicole Hesse

You know, I think that a big part of I have a success that people don’t talk about enough is your willingness to grow your audience very swiftly.

I think that people tend to try to ease into this. They think that it takes a long time. They tell themselves a story that it takes a long time, that they can just take baby steps.

That’s not how this is done. If you want big, fast results, it’s your willingness to be seen. It’s to see and be seen, right?

to build your audience very swiftly and to do that with that really hardwired intention. Of impact behind it is that I’m not building an audience to get clients.

I get clients no matter what, right? I’m building an audience to create a lasting impact. And so figure out what the fuck your impact is and build the audience with that intention.

Rather than trying to build an audience to get clients, it’s a different mindset, right? want to build a monetizable audience for sure, but you want to do it from the angle of thinking about how your platform, how your mission changes the world.

Because… Because that’s what’s going to allow you to move so much faster and to really get that perpetuation, that momentum of sales and the ability for other people to help you to grow that audience because they’re going to get great results with you or because they love you, they want to give you a shout out, whatever that is.

That ripple happens really, really quickly when you’re willing to make a big splash instead of trying to ease into it.

Lynn Howard

Get in the defense. Love it.

Amanda Furgiuele

Yes, get in the defense folks. in the defense. Alright, so Nicole, how can people reach out and find you?

Nicole Hesse

Well, you guys can come join the Facebook group. It’s called Uniform Client Attraction Secrets for High Vibe Wonder Women and in My World Wonder Woman Is a Mindset.

Not a gender bias. So all are welcome. And you can check out my freebie. It’s www.nondstopnotifications.com. And that’s going to give you access to the 100 wonderful ways to get more and better clients so that you guys can pop in, take a look at the casino funnels that I build

All marketers tell me won’t work, but they do work like Motherfucking Wildfire. So, and if you’re on the adventurous side, you want to get the behind the scenes and the raw and real deal with this, you can check out my podcast.

Lynn Howard

It’s called Real Uniforms. Don’t wear pants.

Amanda Furgiuele

I love it. I know I love it. It will be all in the show notes. So if you are listening to this on another platform, you can go to our website, the pursuit of badassery.com slash podcast.

And there you will find Nicole’s interview in a heart transcripts and or. All the information about her and where you can find all those links and freebies.

Lynn Howard

definitely want to grab those. Absolutely. Nicole, this was great. loved having you on. We love real raw and authentic.

Nicole Hesse

Love it.

Lynn Howard

Thanks, Jamie. Yeah.

Amanda Furgiuele

Everyone like share if you this message resonated with you, make sure you share it and like and throw a subscribe our way.

And as always get after it.